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Totaliterianism by joeisbadass Totaliterianism by joeisbadass
Ultimately power corrupts and it doesn't matter if you're a dictator of the proletariat (communism, socialism), dictator of the nation (fascism, nazism, plutocracy), or dictator of the faith (theocracy, monarchy), you're still a dictator and you're still a tyrant. Your vision means nothing, your intention means nothing, but your actions mean everything.
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:iconparty9999999:
Party9999999 Featured By Owner May 6, 2014
Ah yes Totalitarianism that term were you can link completely different political movements and ignore everything. Also why isn't our society "Totalitarian " Capitalism is just as dictatorial and tyrannical as any of the people you put up their. In fact even more so.

Plus the term is dictatorship of the proletariat.
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:iconjoeisbadass:
joeisbadass Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
No. I used the term dictator of the proletariat to refer to the individual communist (or self-proclaimed 'communist') anyway dictators like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and the Kims. 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat" refers to the whole working class controlling a country, not a single dictator.

Also, capitalism is a libertarian school of thought. Whether you want to believe it works or not is a debatable issue but it is by its very nature anti-totalitarian. A free, laisseze faire economy is, by its very nature free, that individuals are free to pursue their own interests without government interventions
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:iconparty9999999:
Party9999999 Featured By Owner May 6, 2014
Then why not just use the term dictator. none of those people ruled over one class they ruled over all parts of society.

No it isn't. Libertarianism  is the idiot off shoot of capitalism. If anything It's closer ideologically to the slave state or feudalism than the modern Bourgeois Government. 
You're not free under capitalism. Every aspect of our lives is dominated by capital (Rent, food bills etc). We all live in fear of what will happen if we run afoul of it. Individuals within capitalism aren't free. They are  subordinate to money and the means by which it is made. Those Individuals who lack capital ie:. The great majority of humanity are cast aside without a second thought in the pursuit of profit. Art, Speech, the Press all are under the thumb of capital.
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joeisbadass Featured By Owner May 6, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Dictatorship; totalitarianism; same shit. I don't think it makes any difference HOW I describe the same thing.

Actually. It's really the opposite. Capitalism grew out of libertarianism, and by libertarianism, I mean individual libertarianism, not social-libertarianism like what Noam Chomsky believes in. Adam Smith wrote the Wealth of Nations during the time the American Revolution took place, and free market economics were preserved alongside the right to defend yourself and freedom of speech. Libertarianism embraces all of these things, alongside being opposed to things like the war on drugs and supporting gay marriage. Now I'm not a libertarian myself. I'm too realistic for that, but you're blind if you think liberty has nothing to do with libertarianism. It has everything to do with it, just like the collective has everything to do with communism.

Yeah and there's a reason why this is the case, and no it's not because of greed or corruption or any shit like that. It's because there's a value to everything. The monetary system was created to measure the value of these things, so eliminating the monetary system isn't gonna result in anything except lead people to measure value in some other form, which is going to start the whole process all over again. Or, it might return to how it was long before civilization existed, when only the strongest survived and all the weak animals died out. That would be worse though because no art would be created and survival would be an even greater issue than it is now. Society keeps evolving and developing and there might come a time eventually where we accumulate so much and so much grows and prospers that equal distribution might be possible, but we would've reached that point because capitalism and self interest have created so much. Everything you and your comrades take advantage of, all the Che tea-shirts, communist websites, and hammer-sickle logo laptops and cell phones, yeah, they were all made in capitalist societies, and communist countries like the Soviet Union created nothing but starving corpses and dying dreams, oh yeah, and Chernobyl. That too. You can argue against the self interest system all you want, but the evidence of capitalism's success is overwhelming to a communist.
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:iconparty9999999:
Party9999999 Featured By Owner May 7, 2014
No. Dictatorship is simply another term for executive rule. "totalitarianism" is a piss poor term which is used to link things which have nothing to do with each other.

Adam Smith's work is about the rise of the bourgeois. That is what the American, English and French etc Revolutions were about. the capitalist class seizing  stat power for themselves and toppling the outmoded  feudal system.
Libertarianism as we know it came about in the years after the first world war. Mostly created my those who were bitter at the fact their aristocratic state had been broken up. People like Hayek and Mises hated and detested things like democracy and workers rights because they believed it "infringed" on the econmomic and political power of the ruling class.

I'm not disagreeing on the point of valuing things. My point if we are to following of what makes a society "totalitarian" then capitalist society is equality totalitarian to any other.

"there might come a time eventually where we accumulate so much and so much grows and prospers that equal distribution might be possible" That time has come. in the frist world we throw away enough food every year to feed to feed all those suffering from malnutrition.  But because their isn't money to made in feeding poor people capitalism won't do it. Only massive revolutionary change can deal with the issues we we face as a species.

Yeah to Soviet Union created nothing. So I guess it's space program. it being a second largest economy for 40 years, it massive health and education system. It cinema and art culture. All mean nothing to you. Pah, it was far better society than one capitalism has built in it's place. All Russia and the former soviet republics got after 1991 was massive unemployment, corruption, a decline in living standards, a rise in drug abuse and STIs and a terrible problem with homelessness.
Even when we fail we do better job than capitalism's success.
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:iconjoeisbadass:
joeisbadass Featured By Owner May 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
The dictionary defines dictatorship as having to do with the government. The dictionary lists 'Totalitarianism' as a synonym. www.merriam-webster.com/dictio…

"I'm not disagreeing on the point of valuing things. My point if we are to following of what makes a society "totalitarian" then capitalist society is equality totalitarian to any other."
Depends on what country your talking about. If you mean capitalist dictatorships like those controlled by Batista or Pinochet, which is indefinitely a form of dictatorship I coined with fascism in the above picture as it should be, then yes, that is a form of dictatorship. But if you're talking about capitalism when applied in a democracy, they go well together, and that thing you said about revolutions? You do realize one of the things that fumed the eventual American Revolution was the British Monarchy giving higher taxes for the East India Trading Company, a MONOPOLIZED BUSINESS, right? You do realize the French revolution happened because France was ruled by monarchs that didn't care to help their starving poor at all right? A big part of what motivated such revolutionaries were the very issues often criticized by the liberal left. You seriously need to brush up on your history man.

"Only massive revolutionary change can deal with the issues we we face as a species."

Yes, like the revolutionary change that turned cosmopolitan Cuba into a jail cell, and Czarist Russia into a pile of corpses, and speaking of the Soviet Union, no country that has its borders closed off via Berlin Wall would have the second largest economy in the world. I think you mean their military. And Khruschev (and possibly Gorbachev) was the only dictator that allowed any possible art to even exist, and it was still very restricted. Seriously, name me one thing that was invented in the Soviet Union (not the government, but by society) that benefitted the world, and I can name you 5-10 right off the top of my head America's capitalism has.
Universal healthcare, which I have 0 doubts even existed in the Union, means absolutely nothing if the healthcare is horrible, millions are starving or being executed, and the masses have virtually no social rights.

By the way, you lived in America and now you live in Britain. I'm pretty sure you've spoken English for many, many years if not your entire life. You really have no excuse for speaking in poor English.
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:iconparty9999999:
Party9999999 Featured By Owner May 8, 2014
The real world isn't as black and white as a dictionary. it's more like a Tie dye t-shirt.

If you had read my last comment you would know that said basic the same thing about the French and American Revolutions. it was about the
bourgeoisie breaking away from the system of feudalism (which they had outpaced on and economic level) and establishing their own means of government. 

Capitalism and democracy don't go to together. why do you think our  legislatures are so piss poor at doing anything. why don you thing millions of people don't vote every election.


"cosmopolitan Cuba" you mean a country that nothing more than a banana republic under the thumb of the United States and orgainsed crime. There was nothing cosmopolitan about it. Most the population could hardly read or write. many had no electricity and over half of Cubans lived in slums.  Things which the revolution worked tirelessly to end. all while under attack from the United States and it's paid terrorists in Miami.

Tsarist Russia was little difference. Most of it's economy was owned by foreign companies and many of it workers were being forced to work 18 hour shifts. And you want to talk about "piles of corpses" Tsarist Russia had famines almost yearly before the Civil War. Even if we discount that. there's still the millions that Nicholas sent to early death on the battlefields of the First World War and the thousands that were killed during his war against japan or the revolution that follow it in 1905.
Also the population of the Soviet Union's  grew year on years. until it was double what it had been in 1923. since 1991 the population of Russia has fallen year on year. so if you want to talks about "piles of corpses" take a look at the system that was forced on Russia by us.

And you want to talk about turning a country into a jail cell. why not look at your own nation whose prison population is twice that of the Gulag during the 1930s.

So the fantastic propaganda posters. Constructivist art and architecture. the Photomontage work seen in magazines like USSR in construction. or films like Battleship Potemkin. None of these things count as art in your opinion.

The Soviet Union's border was any where near the Berlin wall. Hell the wall didn't even mark off the border between east and west Germany  The wall only marked off the Eastern and Western section of Berlin.

For someone who said I need to brush up on history. you're not showing much of an under standing of it.

Ok I have poor grammar. sue me. I'm sure you've never made a spelling mistake in your life. Second speaking and writing are two different things. Plus I've never lived in America. Never claimed to so I don't know where you're get that from.
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:iconjoeisbadass:
joeisbadass Featured By Owner May 8, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Black and white you say? You're the one who believes communism is liberation and capitalism is dictatorship.

Except it wasn't. It was a democratic government, one that is currently thriving from the crack-down of the "burgeosie"

"cosmopolitan Cuba" you mean a country that nothing more than a banana republic under the thumb of the United States and orgainsed crime. There was nothing cosmopolitan about it. Most the population could hardly read or write. many had no electricity and over half of Cubans lived in slums.  Things which the revolution worked tirelessly to end. all while under attack from the United States and it's paid terrorists in Miami."

Cuba under Batista was oppressive don't get me wrong, but they had A LOT of tourism and trade going on there, and that's basically what cosmopolitan is, so yeah.

"Tsarist Russia was little difference. Most of it's economy was owned by foreign companies and many of it workers were being forced to work 18 hour shifts. And you want to talk about "piles of corpses" Tsarist Russia had famines almost yearly before the Civil War. Even if we discount that. there's still the millions that Nicholas sent to early death on the battlefields of the First World War and the thousands that were killed during his war against japan or the revolution that follow it in 1905."
Ok. So Czarist Russia was bad too. I don't doubt that.

"Also the population of the Soviet Union's  grew year on years. until it was double what it had been in 1923. since 1991 the population of Russia has fallen year on year. so if you want to talks about "piles of corpses" take a look at the system that was forced on Russia by us."
Really? How then, may I ask that even happened.

"And you want to talk about turning a country into a jail cell. why not look at your own nation whose prison population is twice that of the Gulag during the 1930s."
Except we've contained actual criminals who have actually done things they weren't supposed to, not the national population from leaving their country.

"So the fantastic propaganda posters. Constructivist art andarchitecture. the Photomontage work seen in magazines like USSR in construction. or films like Battleship Potemkin. None of these things count as art in your opinion."
It's all government art, intended to propagate Stalin and the Soviet Union.

"The Soviet Union's border was any where near the Berlin wall. Hell the wall didn't even mark off the border between east and west Germany  The wall only marked off the Eastern and Western section of Berlin."
Doesn't mean shit. The Berlin Wall was built to keep people IN. Our borders are meant to keep people out, specifically terrorists, foreign criminals and other illegal immigrants

"For someone who said I need to brush up on history. you're not showing much of an under standing of it."
It's called being humble. I recognize my own flaws with some areas but also recognize and exploit (yeah that's the word I'm using) my strengths.

I've made spelling mistakes, but not whole paragraphs. Anyway that's not what's important in this debate. It was just some constructive criticism so your opponents could get the memo that they're worth your time and vice versa

As I recall your deviantart account used to say Country: United States on it. If I remember that wrong, I apologize.
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PrincessElemix Featured By Owner Mar 24, 2014
Why Vlad Țepeș who saved Romania from being raped by the ottoman empire labeled as a bad guy on here?
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joeisbadass Featured By Owner Mar 25, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Saved Romania? More like tortured thousands of Ottomans. They said he was so brutal to them, he would even drink the blood of the Ottomans.
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